neverenuff1969@yahoo.com writes:


> comments left in the logbook about "pity it's not a
> hand carved stamp."
>

No, you're right. That doesn't sound playful at all. So much for the
benefit of the doubt.

It's in the same category as the stories I've heard about people changing the
mounting on someone's hitchhiker stamp, or repackaging a box (unless it's
required to prevent leakage) or hitchhiker. Tampering. Intrusive.
Presumptuous. And rather mean-spirited to try to make someone feel badly about a box they
put effort into, to put out there for the rest of us to find!

DebBee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree the comment may have been considered rude.

I believe one of the appealing things to "stamp snobs" is that the unique, hand-carved stamps place an imprint in their book that can't be obtained anywhere else. It is a symbol of their time and effort to go seek that letterbox.

If the prize is an imprint that can ALSO be obtained by heading to the nearest Hobby Lobby and browsing the shelves, it doesn't carry the same "mystique".

This is just my opinion. There is certainly nothing wrong store-bought stamps and I don't think anyone was trying to insult anyone's ability to carve a stamp. Its just a desire to behold something unique and crafted by hand which can't be found anywhere else.

Its the "treasure" at the end of the hunt.

Anyway...my two cents.

Kurt


On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 02:14PM, aintnorock19 wrote:

>
I'm beginning to change my mind. Leaving a hand carved stamp is one
thing, but leaving a note like, "pity it's not a hand carved stamp"
is just plain mean and totally uncalled for. Hand carved stamps are
nice, but for those of us that are rubber-stamp-carving-challenged
(read: ME), it's not always an option to carve. I've been trying my
hand at it, but I still suck. In the famous words of Rodney
King, "why can't we just all get along?" Maybe we ought to place a
Rodney King box and ask mystery placer to carve his likeness. (I
know, that's mean; sorry).

If Mystery Placer is lurking, why don't you weigh in on this
conversation? I'd like to hear what your purpose really is. If
you're a hand-carved stamp snob, then say so, but give the rest of
us a break, okay?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been reading this thread and trying to assume the
best about the Mystery Placer, thinking maybe he's
good-intentioned but misdirected, or something
similar. The notes in the log, assuming he wrote
them, aren't very nice though.

When it comes to messing with someone's box, you can
never go wrong by asking permission if you want to do
something unconventional. That way the placer has the
opportunity to express their concerns or make whatever
other thoughts they have about their boxes known.

I'll never forget finding one of Baby Bear's boxes on
our first outing and spotting a great hiding place for
a box that would tie in with his in the same park. I
wrote him an email asking if I could place clues to
such a box in his box and he very graciously agreed,
and went on to explain to me that I was describing a
bonus box. I never went through with it (was a little
overzealous at the time and had to settle in a bit,
though I didn't realize it then!). Still though, as
nice a guy as he is, I just don't think he would've
cared much for me just sticking some clues in his box.

If you're trying to be nice, it never hurts to ask!

Lucy


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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It may not be right, but I can't help myself. This whole idea of a
mystery placer just cracks me up! Not that I approve of it or
anything, but it's like those people who steal gnomes then sent
postcards of the gnomes to their owner from around the world. It's not
right, but come on, it is pretty darned funny!

> I think it is utterly inappropriate...it's like touching up
> someone's painting because you think it needs something a bit extra.

No one mentioned anything about this, but that's not really a very
good anology. A painting is an original, creative work and
store-bought stamps don't fit that category. At best, it's like
someone adding a painting because they didn't like the print that
someone left behind. And it could have been worse--the perp could have
destroyed the original store-bought stamp. At least they're leaving it
behind and the owner of the box, if they choose, can easily remove the
newly added stamp if they find it offensive.

All-in-all, I'd rank this crime as fairly petty and one not worthy of
deep thought. I'd be more concerned about geocachers that take the
original stamp by accident or whoever it was that claimed to be
destroying letterboxes in the northeast. This? This is no big deal!

But that's just my two cents. =)

-- Ryan

Well now, thinking about it *this* way, I still don't think it's an
appropriate thing to do *in general*. But, on a *personal* level, if any
talented carver in my neck of the woods, say, Howling Coyote, wanted to drop
on by any of my boxes with my mediocre carved stamps and wanted contribute
one of his/her really nicely carved stamps..........

Fine with me! I'd even advertise that in the clues.

For example, my father absolutely loved to make those paint-by-number
paintings. He loved to paint but that was the best he could do when it came
to talent(and I wonder why my carving is so bad -- it's pure genetics).
Now, if Picasso had wanted to come along and touch up Dad's paintings, Dad
would've been jumpin' for joy.

~~ Mosey ~~

P.S.: Just because there are no rules to a game/sport/hobby doesn't mean
everybody in captivity won't have an opinion on what everybody else does.
:-) Opinions. It's not even the American Way, it's the Human Way.

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of hannahkat@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:08 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Mystery Placer

.............Even if the mystery placer thinks they are doing this in "good
fun"or somehow making an improvement, I think it is utterly
inappropriate...it's like touching up someone's painting because you think
it needs something a bit extra.........

Exactly. To me, it's the uniqueness.

A mediocre hand carved stamp or a mediocre personally designed stamp is
better than the most beautiful of store-bought stamps.

We have a placer in this neck of the woods who draws/designs his own stamps
and then has a stamp company make a stamp of his drawing/design for him. If
a person mounts the stamp themself, it's pretty darn cheap to do. And a
person can order an entire sheet and make it even cheaper. It's still an
"original" stamp. And to me, it's still precious. It's unique. I've done
a couple of these so far that way for boxes when a heavy-duty amount of
letters was involved. Whoever finds those boxes is still getting a
one-of-a-kind stamp. And I try to have more than one box at those sites so
that there is a hand-carved stamp to find.

However, I also put the type of stamp in the clues so that somebody who
doesn't like that style can by-pass that box. Since there *are* so many
varieties to this game/sport/hobby, I feel that's just a courteous thing to
do. On the other hand, no, there's certainly no requirement to do it. But
there's also no requirement saying I can't get hot under the collar when I
spend a lot of time and gas money and find a stamp I already own at the end
of my search. :-) At $2.60 a gallon, I can't afford to go after every box
in captivity anymore. And with a full-time job and a part-time job, as I'm
getting close to retirement, I also have to be kind of selective because I
don't have the time available to go after every box in captivity anymore. I
wish. Oh, how I wish.

But is it really that hard to note the type of stamp in the clues so that
people can pick and choose what would be most enjoyable for *them*? Could
*that* be what's frustrating to this "Mystery Placer"?

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Copeland
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:25 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Mystery Placer



I believe one of the appealing things to "stamp snobs" is that the unique,
hand-carved stamps place an imprint in their book that can't be obtained
anywhere else. It is a symbol of their time and effort to go seek that
letterbox.

If the prize is an imprint that can ALSO be obtained by heading to the
nearest Hobby Lobby and browsing the shelves, it doesn't carry the same
"mystique".

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>>> I don't think this mystery placer should waste their artwork by
putting it in someone else's box - risking disposal at the hands of an
irate placer. -Kim (Rustypuff)>>>

No kidding, how is it really different from the idea of placing a box?
Is this person too lazy and un-original enough to go out and find a
good location for their hand-carved treasure? Is this their twisted
idea of motivating others to carve stamps?

Stamp snob or no, it reeks like a dead sewer rat.

phyto

but it's like those people who steal gnomes
>then sent
>postcards of the gnomes to their owner from around the
>world. It's not
>right, but come on, it is pretty darned funny!


Have you been watching Amelie?

> Have you been watching Amelie?

Who?

-- Ryan

Hmmm, "permanent hitchhiker?" Like a stow-away? A Remora?

Has anyone ever seen two logbook/stamp combinations occupying the same
box?

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, StDebb@a... wrote:
> Hmmm, maybe it's all in how you view it. Maybe Mystery Placer
sees them
> more as a kind of "permanent hitchhiker?" Like a bonus stamp when
you find a
> box?
>
> DebBee, keeping an open mind . . . maybe
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You know, I was up in the air about this whole thing, figuring it was just
another mystery twist on our little obsession until I read the note that was
placed with the stamps. "Making sure every box has a hand carved stamp in
it" sounds to me like a HUGE judgment on someone else's efforts and I find
it mean spirited. Now that being said, I came up with a great idea. I
currently have 150+ boxes placed. None of them have store bought stamps in
them, but I'm certain if this mystery placer needs something to do with
their time I can put out say 40 or 50 this weekend that all have store
bought stamps in them so that this Mystery Placer has something to do with
their time this next week or two. Better start carving Mystery Placer!

Maiden


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dearest Letterboxers and "Mystery Placer",

Why, her Ladyship asks herself, in all this discussion have we not
heard from this "Mystery Placer". Her Ladyship feels it is high time
that you show yourself and explain your intentions. I do hope that the
gentle letterboxers will excuse her Ladyship for stooping to the
vernacular but do you, Mystery Placer, have the cohones to step forth
and end the speculation about your actions? Did your placement include
derisive remarks or have these been falsely attributed to you? Are you
really just an unimaginative placer who hasn't the ability to find a
location of your own? Are you truely just a connoisseur of hand caved
stamps misguided by an overinflated ego? Are the offend finders simply
missing the game you are playing?

Awaiting the end to your silence,
Lady Prisspott

Perchance Mystery Placer forgot to renew his/her subscription to the
National Enquirer, now known as letterbox-usa?

Perchance Mystery Placer has been too busy with other endeavors and,
assuming he/she is on the list, perchance Mystery Placer is backed up in
his/her reading by a post or three?

Perchance the attributes, false or true, just aren't sufficiently exciting?
Perchance we should add some comments about Mystery Placer's latest
pregnancy, latest bout with anorexia, or latest date with Brad Pitt?

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Lady Hydrangea
Prisspott nee Hedge
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:01 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Mystery Placer


Dearest Letterboxers and "Mystery Placer",

Why, her Ladyship asks herself, in all this discussion have we not
heard from this "Mystery Placer". Her Ladyship feels it is high time
that you show yourself and explain your intentions. I do hope that the
gentle letterboxers will excuse her Ladyship for stooping to the
vernacular but do you, Mystery Placer, have the cohones to step forth
and end the speculation about your actions? Did your placement include
derisive remarks or have these been falsely attributed to you? Are you
really just an unimaginative placer who hasn't the ability to find a
location of your own? Are you truely just a connoisseur of hand caved
stamps misguided by an overinflated ego? Are the offend finders simply
missing the game you are playing?

Awaiting the end to your silence,
Lady Prisspott

It seems to me that so many of the arguments and bickering that occur in letterboxing are the result of people's inability to "let go" of their boxes and turn them over to the community. They want to maintain total control over what happens to the box and the territory surrounding it. When I create a letterbox and plant it, I consider it to be a gift to the community. The community decides if my box succeeds or fails and if it becomes a legend or a flash in the pan.

If someone wants to add a stamp to one of my boxes, or embellish it in any other way that suits their fancy, that's just fine with me. In fact, I would welcome such activity, as long as it doesn't jeaopordize the continued existence of my letterbox. I see such actions as just another method in which the community has chosen to interact with my box. I would be flattered to find that someone had added a bonus stamp to one of my letterboxes. (Please do... please, please, please!)

Personally, my original attraction to letterboxing was that it's not the same kind of artform as painting, sculpting, printmaking, or something like that where the artist does the work in solitude and then it is placed in a gallery for people to look at. Letterboxing is a form of communication. It is an interactive art form, very similar to the Fluxus art movement of the sixties. The work is never complete... it is always waiting for someone to make it more interesting.

When I create a box and plant it, I know that I have only performed the first act of what will hopefully be a long cycle of creative interactions with an imaginative and thoughtful community. My letterbox will change every time someone visits it. Sometimes it will change in small subtle ways. Sometimes it will change in big dramatic ways. My only hope is that the box doesn't disappear completely. It's all part of the game. If this concept is too much for someone to handle, I suggest that they should consider finding another medium in which to express their creativity... one that involves hanging their precious artwork in a gallery behind a velvet rope fence.

-- Der Mad Stamper


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay, if I may (so that I may understand)...I am going to word this in a
certain way, because I am reading two different things as I read your
response and this is in no way meant to sound disrespectful or sarcastic
(though I know it may be read that way), but instead meant to help me
understand what I read as inconsistencies. Bear with me...

< letterboxing are the result of people's inability to "let go" of their boxes
and turn them over to the community. They want to maintain total control
over what happens to the box and the territory surrounding it. When I create
a letterbox and plant it, I consider it to be a gift to the community. The
community decides if my box succeeds or fails and if it becomes a legend or
a flash in the pan.>>

...does that mean that once you plant your "gift" that you don't go back and
tend to it and take responsibility for having placed it in the first
place?...or do you expect the "community" to care for your box?

< other way that suits their fancy, that's just fine with me. In fact, I
would welcome such activity, as long as it doesn't jeaopordize the continued
existence of my letterbox. I see such actions as just another method in
which the community has chosen to interact with my box. I would be flattered
to find that someone had added a bonus stamp to one of my letterboxes.
(Please do... please, please, please!)>>

So if someone decided that the continued existence of YOUR letterbox (that
you have given to the community) involved taking out all the contents and
replacing them with their own stamp and log (essentially usurping your clues
and hiding place), how would that rate in your opinion?

< same kind of artform as painting, sculpting, printmaking, or something like
that where the artist does the work in solitude and then it is placed in a
gallery for people to look at.>>

I agree with you that this is not an artform meant to be 'hands-off'...after
all the use of the stamp involves choice of color, placement or whether you
want the stamp in your log in the first place. I however, see the WHOLE
letterbox as the art that the person creates. When you add or subtract from
the original, you change the experience of the finder.


<>

I also agree with you that letterboxing is a form of communication. This is
the very reason that the idea of someone changing a letterbox of mine, makes
me angry. I don't want someone else to change my original thought or message
or sentiment -- in effect negating that I had a message in the first place.
For example, I launched a hitchhiker in memory of my late husband in the
image of his bright green and black truck that he was known for. If someone
decided to change the color of the ink markers or change the stamp itself,
it would fundamentally change and diminish the meaning I intended. It would
be fine if they wanted to stamp it in THEIR log in a different color,
creating meaning for themselves, but it's not for them to say if the ink I
put in there should be taken out or that other colors should be added.

< first act of what will hopefully be a long cycle of creative interactions
with an imaginative and thoughtful community. My letterbox will change every
time someone visits it. Sometimes it will change in small subtle ways.
Sometimes it will change in big dramatic ways. My only hope is that the box
doesn't disappear completely.>>

I, too, hope that there will be plenty of creative interactions with my
letterboxes such as poems, riddles, pictures and such, but I have a hard
time believing that you would not be upset if someone fundamentally changed
your box. If you place a box with a stamp image of bird and a special
feather covered log and them someone adds a stamp of a gun with a message of
'killing' your bird, wouldn't you think that was out of line? I know that is
a hypothetical example, but I wouldn't put it past someone with a twisted
idea of what is funny.

< handle, I suggest that they should consider finding another medium in which
to express their creativity... one that involves hanging their precious
artwork in a gallery behind a velvet rope fence.>>

I don't think changing other's boxes is "part of the game"...and I don't
think most people go into the act of placing a box thinking that that is
part of the bargain.

I apologize if I have come across in the wrong way. I just think the idea of
changing someone's box in any way (except maybe adding a plastic baggie to
protect the stamp or log when the original bag is ripped) is just downright
disrespectful. Perhaps others feel more free about their boxes, but in
consideration of those who are not so generous of spirit, myself included, I
don't think these practices should be condoned.

Respectfully,
-Kim (Rustypuff)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If this concept is too much for someone to handle, I suggest that
>they should consider finding another medium in which to express their
>creativity... one that involves hanging their precious artwork in a
>gallery behind a velvet rope fence.
>
> -- Der Mad Stamper

If I am understanding this right, what you are saying is that if I
don't look at the game the same way you do then you suggest I should
find another game to play?

Fred

On Wednesday, August 17, 2005, at 06:53 PM, ferdinand_waldo_demara
wrote:

> If this concept is too much for someone to handle, I suggest that
>> they should consider finding another medium in which to express their
>> creativity... one that involves hanging their precious artwork in a
>> gallery behind a velvet rope fence.
>>
>> -- Der Mad Stamper
>
> If I am understanding this right, what you are saying is that if I
> don't look at the game the same way you do then you suggest I should
> find another game to play?
>

I won't presume to speak for DMS, but my take on what he said was a bit
more benign. I read it more along the lines of "If you just can't stand
people messing with your box or the possibility of it going missing or
some such, then maybe this hobby isn't for you." While I would never
mess with anyone else's LB, I agree to the extent that if such things
like that are going to get your blood pressure to uncomfortable
heights, you might want to reconsider. We don't have to like it and
it's not like we can't say anything when it happens and even discuss
the 'appropriateness' of various actions, but boxes **will** be messed
with and/or destroyed. It's not pleasant, but it's going to happen.
When a box I plant goes missing, I'll be upset, but will have to make
that a temporary state or the hobby will quickly become more
aggravating than fun, which I
don't want. :-)

pezpam

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "ferdinand_waldo_demara"
wrote:
> If this concept is too much for someone to handle, I suggest that
> >they should consider finding another medium in which to express their
> >creativity... one that involves hanging their precious artwork in a
> >gallery behind a velvet rope fence.
> >
> > -- Der Mad Stamper
>
> If I am understanding this right, what you are saying is that if I
> don't look at the game the same way you do then you suggest I should
> find another game to play?
> Fred


No, DMS is touching upon the artsnob stampsnob world. The holier than
thou elitist mentality that we all disdain. All art is up for grabs,
everything has been done, redone, born again, reborn and not your own.
The earth, is not your own, you wanna talk sixties? I suggest that you
do a little more homework on that discussion.

As for letterboxing, sure, it could be viewed as a cultural experiment
into the relationships between people and plastic.

I put my art out there.
If you don't like it, don't find it.
But...don't mess with it.

phyto

Well said DMS.

I view letterboxes that I place as a social event, as
an evolving art project that I release into the wild
and turn over to fortune.

It's so fascinating how people have joined together to
mysteriously find, share and create art. It's an
intriguing social event that melds art with nature and
our environment, and connects us in this unique way.

It's probably best to let go of feelings of territory
and simply let the experience develop.

JARS

--- Letterboxr@aol.com wrote:
---------------------------------
It seems to me that so many of the arguments and
bickering that occur in letterboxing are the result of
people's inability to "let go" of their boxes and turn
them over to the community. They want to maintain
total control over what happens to the box and the
territory surrounding it. When I create a letterbox
and plant it, I consider it to be a gift to the
community. The community decides if my box succeeds
or fails and if it becomes a legend or a flash in the
pan.

If someone wants to add a stamp to one of my boxes, or
embellish it in any other way that suits their fancy,
that's just fine with me. In fact, I would welcome
such activity, as long as it doesn't jeaopordize the
continued existence of my letterbox. I see such
actions as just another method in which the community
has chosen to interact with my box. I would be
flattered to find that someone had added a bonus stamp
to one of my letterboxes. (Please do... please,
please, please!)

Personally, my original attraction to letterboxing was
that it's not the same kind of artform as painting,
sculpting, printmaking, or something like that where
the artist does the work in solitude and then it is
placed in a gallery for people to look at.
Letterboxing is a form of communication. It is an
interactive art form, very similar to the Fluxus art
movement of the sixties. The work is never complete...
it is always waiting for someone to make it more
interesting.

When I create a box and plant it, I know that I have
only performed the first act of what will hopefully be
a long cycle of creative interactions with an
imaginative and thoughtful community. My letterbox
will change every time someone visits it. Sometimes it
will change in small subtle ways. Sometimes it will
change in big dramatic ways. My only hope is that the
box doesn't disappear completely. It's all part of
the game. If this concept is too much for someone to
handle, I suggest that they should consider finding
another medium in which to express their creativity...
one that involves hanging their precious artwork in a
gallery behind a velvet rope fence.

-- Der Mad Stamper


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

It is a french movie "AMelie" in which one thing she does
is hijack her depressed father's gnome........ merely
picking up on your gnome hijacking reference....
\





On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:59:23 -0000
"rscarpen" wrote:
>> Have you been watching Amelie?
>
>Who?
>
>-- Ryan
>
>
>
>
>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I just now recognized what was meant by "Amelie" when I saw the post
below.

I remember it now! I loved that movie. My wife bought it for me as a
gift after we rented it.

I'm glad you posted that or the comment would have completely escaped
me.

tabulator32



On Wednesday, August 17, 2005, at 10:19 PM, dragonfly@norwoodlight.com
wrote:

> It is a french movie "AMelie" in which one thing she does
> is hijack her depressed father's gnome........ merely
> picking up on your gnome hijacking reference....
> \


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Phyto wrote:

>> No, DMS is touching upon the artsnob stampsnob world. The holier
than thou elitist mentality that we all disdain. All art is up for
grabs, everything has been done, redone, born again, reborn and not
your own. The earth, is not your own, you wanna talk sixties? I
suggest that you do a little more homework on that discussion. <<

Barefoot Lucy wrote:

>> I think DMS' post demonstrated his passion for
letterboxing rather than harshness. <<


Whew! I'm glad to see that some people understood what I was trying
to say about this topic. For those others who read my words and
decided to dismiss me as an elitist art snob or think that I'm saying
people must agree with my opinions or find another hobby, all I can
say is that I'm sorry that my words did not adequately express my
true feelings.

I'm really not an art snob. Nor do I claim to be an expert in art
trends of the sixties. All I said was that I like the fact that
letterboxing is an interactive artform. I don't believe that
letterboxes need to have hand-carved stamps, although I must admit
that I tend to prefer stamps that have been manufactured from an
original design over ones that were bought off a shelf. But I have
no aversion to letterboxes that contain store-bought stamps. I can
think of quite a few that I knew were that type of box before I went
hunting for them. That didn't stop me from solving the clues, finding
the boxes, and happily stamping them into my logbook.

I actually have an obsessive fetish for rubber stamps... ALL rubber
stamps. I have planted boxes with store-bought stamps in them
myself, although they were somewhat altered so as to be truly
unique. Anyone who has spent any time at all communicating with me
knows that I am anything but an elitist or an art snob.

Please understand that I'm not specifically condoning the actions of
the Mystery Placer. I can certainly see why some people would
consider this person's actions to be thoughtless or rude. I'm simply
saying that I, personally, would not be upset if this person added a
bonus stamp to one of my boxes.

It is not just my opinion that things happen to our boxes that we
didn't originally intend to happen, it is a fact. That is the nature
of our hobby. We leave our works of art in the wild and subject them
to the world. Sometimes we can't anticipate what will become of it
after that. Sometimes they go missing altogether. In a way, that
actually adds to the intrigue of the game, because you never really
know if the box you're looking for still exists or not. When you
find it, part of the excitement is in knowing that it is still alive.

So I'm not saying that you must agree with my OPINION or go find
another hobby. I'm just saying that if you can't accept the FACT
that unforseen things may happen to your box, then maybe this isn't
the best hobby for you.

I'm also not saying that I believe in planting boxes and abandoning
them. I was forced to lose touch with my boxes for a period of time
because of drastic circumstances in my personal life. But as soon as
I was able, I made the rounds and performed maintenance on all my
boxes. In the case of the few that were planted too far away from
home to visit, I have done my best to contact people who live in that
area or who had recently visited my boxes to determine their current
status, and I have updated all my clues to reflect that status.

If someone takes the contents out of my box and replaces them with
something else, then they have done a disservice to the letterboxing
community. Obviously, I would not be in favor of that. But if
somebody just ADDS something to my box, I'm not going to have a cow
about it. If I made a box with a bird in it, and someone added a
stamp of a gun to shoot the bird with, I would laugh out loud! I
would repeat the hike just to go get a print of the gun!

And if someone puts something in my box that I really don't want to
be there, I reserve the right to take it out again. I'm not going to
get angry about it, though. Perhaps I would just convert it into a
hitchhiker, unless it was something really offensive. But, in most
cases, whenever someone drops something new and interesting into one
of my letterboxes, I leave it there for others to see.

Again, I apologize if my early post did not properly express my
feelings.

DMS an art snob? LOL!!! Obviously you've never had the pleasure of meeting
this intelligent, gentle soul. We thought DMS's recent post on the subject was
nothing short of eloquent.

(Sorry DMS, hope you don't mind that we give our opinion on the person we
take you to be).

~~Doublesaj & Old Blue~~
P59 F 560 X144 V18 HH 44 S18


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I appreciate your clarification. Thanks for taking the time to write it out.
I just felt like your previous post was expressing conflicting sentiments
and I wasn't sure where you were 'coming from'.

While I don't agree with people deciding to alter other's boxes, I'm glad to
see that we agree that placers ultimately have proprietary rights and
responsibilities regarding their boxes.

Thanks again!
Be well!
-Kim (Rustypuff)

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Der Mad Stamper
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 3:10 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Mystery Placer

Phyto wrote:

>> No, DMS is touching upon the artsnob stampsnob world. The holier
than thou elitist mentality that we all disdain. All art is up for
grabs, everything has been done, redone, born again, reborn and not
your own. The earth, is not your own, you wanna talk sixties? I
suggest that you do a little more homework on that discussion. <<

Barefoot Lucy wrote:

>> I think DMS' post demonstrated his passion for
letterboxing rather than harshness. <<


Whew! I'm glad to see that some people understood what I was trying
to say about this topic. For those others who read my words and
decided to dismiss me as an elitist art snob or think that I'm saying
people must agree with my opinions or find another hobby, all I can
say is that I'm sorry that my words did not adequately express my
true feelings.

I'm really not an art snob. Nor do I claim to be an expert in art
trends of the sixties. All I said was that I like the fact that
letterboxing is an interactive artform. I don't believe that
letterboxes need to have hand-carved stamps, although I must admit
that I tend to prefer stamps that have been manufactured from an
original design over ones that were bought off a shelf. But I have
no aversion to letterboxes that contain store-bought stamps. I can
think of quite a few that I knew were that type of box before I went
hunting for them. That didn't stop me from solving the clues, finding
the boxes, and happily stamping them into my logbook.

I actually have an obsessive fetish for rubber stamps... ALL rubber
stamps. I have planted boxes with store-bought stamps in them
myself, although they were somewhat altered so as to be truly
unique. Anyone who has spent any time at all communicating with me
knows that I am anything but an elitist or an art snob.

Please understand that I'm not specifically condoning the actions of
the Mystery Placer. I can certainly see why some people would
consider this person's actions to be thoughtless or rude. I'm simply
saying that I, personally, would not be upset if this person added a
bonus stamp to one of my boxes.

It is not just my opinion that things happen to our boxes that we
didn't originally intend to happen, it is a fact. That is the nature
of our hobby. We leave our works of art in the wild and subject them
to the world. Sometimes we can't anticipate what will become of it
after that. Sometimes they go missing altogether. In a way, that
actually adds to the intrigue of the game, because you never really
know if the box you're looking for still exists or not. When you
find it, part of the excitement is in knowing that it is still alive.

So I'm not saying that you must agree with my OPINION or go find
another hobby. I'm just saying that if you can't accept the FACT
that unforseen things may happen to your box, then maybe this isn't
the best hobby for you.

I'm also not saying that I believe in planting boxes and abandoning
them. I was forced to lose touch with my boxes for a period of time
because of drastic circumstances in my personal life. But as soon as
I was able, I made the rounds and performed maintenance on all my
boxes. In the case of the few that were planted too far away from
home to visit, I have done my best to contact people who live in that
area or who had recently visited my boxes to determine their current
status, and I have updated all my clues to reflect that status.

If someone takes the contents out of my box and replaces them with
something else, then they have done a disservice to the letterboxing
community. Obviously, I would not be in favor of that. But if
somebody just ADDS something to my box, I'm not going to have a cow
about it. If I made a box with a bird in it, and someone added a
stamp of a gun to shoot the bird with, I would laugh out loud! I
would repeat the hike just to go get a print of the gun!

And if someone puts something in my box that I really don't want to
be there, I reserve the right to take it out again. I'm not going to
get angry about it, though. Perhaps I would just convert it into a
hitchhiker, unless it was something really offensive. But, in most
cases, whenever someone drops something new and interesting into one
of my letterboxes, I leave it there for others to see.

Again, I apologize if my early post did not properly express my
feelings.




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